Important biblical information regarding leadership positions in the fellowship that follows Yahusha in obedience to the commands of Yahuah. Authority in the body, or in the church, is assigned to whom? Leadership falls to whom? Decisions are made by whom, according the the Words? Obedience is an example of what? And a contrite spirit is accompanied by a desire to do what?
As we get further into the tribulation era, we will see more and more division. Yahuah told me that He is bringing his sword “to separate the Righteous from the unrighteous“, and this will happen even in congregations of mostly righteous believers. Remember that even the demons believe in Yahuah. They are utterly certain that He exists, and they expect to fight Him at a specified time in the future.
It is the unrighteous, those who do not read, study and live by the commands of Yahuah that will be given to the torturers. The torturers serve Yahusha and will deal with the unforgiving, either after death or at the end of time. The unforgiving are a subgroup of the unrighteous. You must read and study and live by the Words of Yahuah and Yahusha. It is their words, and theirs alone, which give life.
Mat 18:32 “Then his master called him and said to him, ‘Wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt seeing you begged me.
Mat 18:33 ‘Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, as I also had compassion on you?’
Mat 18:34 “And his master was wroth, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
Mat 18:35 “So also My heavenly Father shall do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Forgiveness is a requirement to be offered quickly. Otherwise, rebellion against the requirement will result in torture mandated by Yahuah Himself. Torture for you if you are unforgiving. It will begin very quickly, that gnawing feeling in your stomach, then the uncertainty, then questioning whether or not Yahuah is with you.
Doubt. Fear. Anger. Resentment. Then instability at home, at work, in finances. Your world will start falling apart and you will be unable to stop it. These are all hallmarks of resentment and an unforgiving spirit.
Thank you, Jerry…a strong, but necessary message!
Brother Jerry, I wanted you to know that I have listened to your message and that I am reviewing your argument for only elders and deacons. I also recognize you consider a pastor to be a fabricated position made up by men. Thus, I am not responding to place an argument against yours as I don’t think any profit in such correspondence would occur. However, I do have a curious question. What happens from a Biblical standpoint if an elder’s or a deacon’s action becomes anti-Biblical? I think if you could do a follow on to this it could balance out your perspective. Checks and balances are needed in any organization I believe is what your main point is.
No, my main point is clearly that Elders rule the churches, not pastors. You did post this :”What happens from a Biblical standpoint if an elder’s or a deacon’s action becomes anti-Biblical?”, and the answer is in the podcast. The Elders rule the churches, not the Pastors or Deacons. How about you cite the crime incorporating your “…an elder or deacon being anti-biblical” scenario, and I will tell you the answer? Although the answer is obvious. The remaining elders handle it. I don’t mind if you place an argument against me at all. I love the experience of heated discourse. I’ll still love you 🙂
My question is more of the following. If the congregation thinks an elder or a deacon is wrong, what role does the congregation have to discipline an elder or a deacon. I’m asking this question assuming a “pastor” is not available to balance out if such a hypothetical issue would occur.
There are “elders” plural. Will vary slightly depending on the body, but three or four seems to be the most common. If one is in substantial error or sin then an elder will discuss it with the wrong one. If wrong one refuses to listen, two elders will address it, and if he still refuses to repent, then he will lose his position. Elders are generally voted on, I suppose early in the establishment of that particular body. I don’t think I have ever participated in something like that. Pastors came about sometime late in the creation of the churches. I haven’t looked very far into it, but I suspect it would have taken place as the Catholic church grew and appointed priests to head local churches. After the Protestant movement, the Protestants adopted many Catholic doctrines, and having a pastor replace the priest makes sense to me. I’m guessing on the time frame, just looking at history. Pastors will concentrate too much authority into their own corner and inevitably it will break the body.… Read more »
In an elders-only organization, that organization would need more than one to balance out an issue if an issue rose up so that the organization could continue operating until a new elder could be found if replacement occurs.
Yes, obviously more than one. No church is established with one single elder. That would be more akin to a cult, where there is one Supreme Master and all are subordinate to it.
Is your new church going to have three or four elders? And each elder is voted in democraticly by the congregation correct?
Four, currently. Same elders we were taught by at Jeremy’s personal church operation. We voted with our leaving. Do you just want to argue, David? I’m asking because your tone is increasingly hostile and bitter. I will not argue with you.
Sorry brother, I have no hostility or bitterness in my heart towards you. I have no intention of arguing either. So I apologize if my correspondence sounds that way. Sincerely, I am just curious about your new setup since it is so different and new to me in approach and style. You forget I am only two years removed from the Southern Baptist church system and I am youthful in understanding of a non-pastor type of approach to church governance. It is just curiosity, no hostility or bitterness. That is the problem with the written word. Emotion is not effectively deductible in written text.
Ok, thanks David. I appreciate your candor.
Thanks Jerry😊 i really needed that one .
Cool. Good to hear from you, Nell.