Had Natsarim Been Tempted In The Garden

Adam and Eve were tempted by Satan in the garden.  Both rejected Yahuah and brought sin into the world of humans.  Prior to that, sin only existed among the fallen ones, because they disobeyed Yahuah first.  Had Adam been of the Natsarim, his decisions would have been different.

This is a simple process but let’s try to think as Adam might have thought.  I focus on Adam because he was the first human created, and he was created from mud by Yahuah and his life was breathed into him by Yahuah.  He was also created outside of the garden.  Being created outside of the garden might have played a roll in his fall, because certainly the fallen ones also existed outside the garden.  Did they corrupt the earth prior to Adams creation?

If they did, a battlefield tactic would have been to surround the garden with “booby traps”, perhaps some technology in the soil to corrupt mankind should mankind ever till to the soil outside the garden.  But this is only intellectual conjecture at this point.  I want to focus on Adam, Eve, the Nacash and Yahuah.

Nacash –

Strong’s Hebrew: 5175. נָחָשׁ (nachash) — a serpent

I. נָחָשׁ noun masculine Genesis 3:1 serpent (Late Hebrew id.; Arabic serpent, viper (Lane 406anything hunted) is compare by Lag M, i, 230; BN 50, 188 Ba Es 48, but improbable; Arabic see below [נָחַשׁ below; on formation compare Lag BN 50); — absolute ׳נ Amos 5:19 +; construct נְחַשׁ Numbers 21:9 2t.; plural נְחָשִׁים Numbers 21:6; Jeremiah 8:17; —
The serpent tempted Eve by stating that “surely she would not die”.  A lie, and Eve had never heard a lie before.  Neither had Adam.  They had only heard Truth.  Every word ever spoken had been truth, both from Yahuah and to one another.  They were like little children in this regard.
Adam heard the nacash speak to Eve, and Eve ate from the tree.  She did not die.  Adam noted this.  He should have rebuked the serpent when the serpent lied, but Adam did not know what a lie was.  He observed.
When Eve did not fall dead, Adam also ate.  Since he did not rebuke the serpent prior to Eve eating from the tree, he should have waited until the cool of the day when he and Yahuah walked in the garden together to talk.  Adam could have asked Yahuah about the serpent, Eve and the tree.  Yahuah would have instructed Adam as to the serpents lie, and explained what a lie was.
Adam did not wait.  He did not ask for clarification.  He ate from the tree and experienced whatever Eve experienced.  She experienced something, certainly.  Her eyes were opened to rebellion.  She knew more than Adam and Adam had to take that step, too.
Not from pride, as that would have been a sin the preceded eating from the tree.  He just wanted to experience what Eve experienced as her eyes were opened to see what disobedience offered.
A Natsarim would have rebuked the serpent from the beginning.  Natsarim are guardians of Truth.  We stand for Truth no matter what.  We seek truth and we live according to it.  A Natsarim would have warned Eve to obey Yahuah no matter what, and then the Natsarim would have asked Yahuah about this nacash when he walked with Yahuah in the cool of the day.
We stand for the Truth and we ask questions when we do not know.   We seek the wise counsel of one who does know, and if the answer is slow in coming, we are patient.  We wait.  There is no need to hurry.
Note – Cain was not the offspring of Satan, as some teach.  Cain was no giant, as were the eventual offspring of the fallen ones and human women. Cain was simply the first-born of sin, and he bore the fruit of that ignoble position.
When you are tempted by some glittering snake, turn away.  Remember the promises of Yahuah to all who keep His commands.   Our Way is difficult.  The gate is tight and the path is narrow.  There is no wandering from side to side.  Being narrow, we must directly encounter snares and not go around them.  Direct encounter means we must deal with temptation as true guardians of the Truth.  Every time.

The Beast

I have to share this with you before closing.

Just erected at the United Nations (U.N.)- teeth like a lion, wings like an eagle, the tail of a serpent and feet like a bear.  “The Guardian of International Peace and Security” they call it.  World peace, guaranteed by the organization that erected this thing.

Peace and safety.  When they proclaim it, sudden destruction will come upon them.

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10 thoughts on “Had Natsarim Been Tempted In The Garden”

  1. Hello Jerry,

    I love the story of the Fall and it never ceases to impress me with it’s depth and relevance. Here are a few beliefs I have about the Fall that you may not have heard before. My perspective is that of a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (though I research material from many religions including philosophies of the ancients), hopefully you find my thoughts interesting and thought provoking.

    For context, I believe that God is the Father of the spirits of all mankind and that we lived with God before this life.

    Symbolically, Eve partaking of the fruit first is beautiful. There were two main trees in the garden of Eden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life. After they partook of the forbidden fruit God “drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.” Only Israelite men of the tribe of Levi could be part of God’s Priesthood in Biblical Israel. The sacrificial Priesthood ceremonies were very symbolic of the garden and in burnt offerings you could almost literally say that Cherubim and a flaming sword were guarding the way to the tree of life as they cut and burned the offerings trying to approach it. The result of the Fall was bringing souls out of God’s presence, and the result of God’s sacrifice (which is made valid in Priesthood ceremonies such as baptism) is a returning of souls into God’s presence. The Fall was put into motion by a woman’s act, and the Atonement was put in motion by a man’s act. “Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.”

    I have considered the possibility that giving the forbidden fruit and accepting it was a Priesthood ceremony and that God was planning to perform the ritual but the serpent, trying to put himself above God, made a mockery of it. Also worth noting is that after they eat the fruit, the devil clothes them in fig leaves. But after God comes, He clothes them in coats of skins. There’s definitely a distinction in the way the devil tried to supplant God and imitate Him. I have wondered for many years if the devil is even necessary for God’s plan to be in effect? Our fallen nature provides enough temptation as it stands without the devil’s nudging.

    My religion teaches that the Fall was necessary in order for God’s plan to progress. We also revere Eve as a woman of courage who made an intentional decision as she knew she was commanded not to eat of the fruit, but also commanded to multiply and replenish the Earth. My church believes that the Fall was necessary because without it Adam and Eve couldn’t have children. I believe that the Fall was necessary, but for reasons I’ve never heard in any Sunday School class.

    God, being perfect, cannot create anything with blemish or corruption. I think when God created the Earth it was perfect. When He created the Garden and Adam and Eve, they were all perfect. There was no death. No sorrow. No pain. But one thing God can do is create agency. As soon as He gave them a choice, He could attach a consequence to their decision, and that consequence was corruption.

    I do not believe that partaking of the fruit was a sin, but it was a transgression. Like breaking the speed limit isn’t morally wrong, but it is breaking the law. Anyways, that’s just a few thoughts. Hope you enjoyed reading them.

    1. I appreciate your hard work in creating this interesting comment. In the Way, “transgression” is specifically sin. Morality does not play any part in sin, as sin only exists when a command of Yahuah is broken. It is considered immoral to do anything which is sin as defined by the instructions Yahuah gave Moses. So eating the forbidden food was in fact sin, breaking the covenant. Eve and Adam had been perfect up until that moment. Their imperfection separated them from Yahuah, as it separates all of us from Him. Therefore, the only way we could be redeemed is through the mercy of Yahuah and one perfect sacrifice whose blood would wash away our sins.

      Yahuah made it easy. Salvation through faith and the proof of our worship through obedience to His commands.

      Yahusha states plainly that His Heavenly Father will only love us if we obey His commands “If you obey my commands, my Father in Heaven will love you”. Obedience is our proof of relationship. It is our worship, and the only worship that Yahuah accepts. All who deny His commands refuse to honor Him and turn their backs to the one that claim is their “God”. They become the tares who will be gathered up and burned. They are the weeds that spring up with the wheat, looking similar to but being worth nothing. They will be gathered up and burned. This will occur soon. Months or a year or two.

      The fall was a travesty. Perhaps inevitable, but certainly not necessary. Eve and Adam failed terribly. Granted, they did not know what a lie was, but they certainly knew what their instructions were. There is no evidence that Adam and Eve would not have children unless they fell. They had the full set of necessary equipment for that
      purpose prior to the sin. 🙂

      Satan is a foil. He is driven mad by his spite and contempt, and he is persuasive. Every step he takes brings him closer to his doom, and he is aware of that. Yet he must possess the throne in the Temple and he must be worshipped as “god”. Its madness on a celestial scale and there is no way he can back off, slow down or retreat. What he thought would elevate him to godhood will instead drive him to the fire. Wow.

      Ask Yahuah to show you the Way, JV. Just ask.

      1. I appreciate your response. I understand what you’re saying. I agree that obedience is necessary, and that Adam and Eve disobeyed God’s commandment. I really appreciate the focus on obedience in your posts, it’s something most Christians ignore but is made quite clear in the Bible. I hope that as my life progresses I am more obedient over time, not less, because that will indicate to me that my relationship with Christ and my discipleship have improved.

        Do you view some sins as worse than others? I understand that all disobedience separates me from God, but are there some commandments that are worse to break than others? Curious on your thoughts on this.

        It’s true, the Bible doesn’t expressly state that the Fall was necessary in order to have children. But consider how there is opposition in all things. We see today the world trying to eliminate opposition and it’s part of the Big Lie. With that being the case, how can new life be born if one cannot die? How can there be pleasure without the ability to feel pain? How can one who’s perfectly innocent ever discover how to procreate? Why would they ever want to? When I think of Adam and Eve as innocent, I view them as I view a little child. Even if a child had the capacity to make children they never would.

        Speaking specifically of women… Menstruation, the act of procreation, and pregnancy, I believe they are all sacred rituals/ceremonies/patterns divinely instilled into women by God. They all point to Christ, they all follow universal patterns. For example, a single sperm out of a hundred million fertilizing the egg is the same, to me, as Christ saying “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” A thousand failures are required for a single success.

        I mention this because pregnancy, while divine, is incredibly painful. It is a miracle any woman has ever had a child, let alone more than one. So, in a perfect world, with no variability and no change, why should I believe that Eve’s body could change, let alone feel pain, when there was no corruption? When, immediately after the Fall, I read, “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” It either means that now she can have children where she couldn’t have previously, or that she could have brought forth children in the garden but it wouldn’t have been in sorrow. It’s also worth noting that she is married by this time as Adam is referred to as her husband.

        Also worth noting, inferring from this verse, “And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.” Eve may not have had a name before the Fall and she may not have been the mother of all living before the Fall. Again, opposition, there is living because there is now death, and it was her decision that resulted in living and death existing.

        My Church has additional scripture that clearly states the Fall was necessary in order for them to procreate, but I do not personally have a spiritual witness to those specific statements. One specific verse is quoted here, for your consideration, “And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.” I’m currently like a 7/10 on believing it was necessary, but I’m not entirely convinced it was.

        When I consider what the world would be like if the Fall never happened and if they could have had children and grandchildren. There would have been no need for Jesus. There would have been no need for a resurrection or a reconciliation. There would have been no experience knowing good and evil and learning to choose the good over the evil. There would have been no agency, no choosing God. There would have been no returning to God because we’d have never left.

        God is our Father. There is a seed of the divine in each of us. As His child I want to become like Him. I believe that God is good, but not only that, He chooses to be good. That he knows what evil is and chooses not to be evil. I want to be like that. None of us could ever become like that if the Fall hadn’t happened.

        P.S. I think the end of the world will be no earlier than 2025 and no later than 2040.

        1. JV, not desiring to offend you, I must state plainly that the Mormon doctrine is not the doctrine of Yahuah. Yahuah is who He says He is. His authority is absolute. When you say that He “chooses to do good”, I say that He does whatsoever he chooses and it is good. We are not the judges of what is “good” or “evil”. He is that judge and we either follow Him or deny Him. He is the definition of perfect. He is the definition of good. He is the definition of love.

          The false doctrine that man had to sin in order to bear children is blasphemous. That statement implies that Yahuah made us with the intent of failure. He knew we would fail, but that was never His intention. We chose to disobey our Master and sucked up the convenient lie that we could be Masters, too. Satan knows how to tell a great lie.

          Man had to have sex in order to have children. Sex between Adam and his wife was not sin. Yahuah made their sex organs. How can anyone believe what is taught in the Mormon church?

          Are some sins worse than others, you ask? Do I really need to address that? Here is where you are lacking, JV – you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Being void of the spirit of Yahuah, you cannot rightly divide the Words of Yahuah, and because you cannot rightly divide them, you cannot understand them. Its all an intellectual exercise for you, which will NEVER feed you. You must turn from the enormous fraud that is Mormonism and embrace the Truth. You do not have any valid “other scriptures”, and your head is filled with yakkity yak.

          You must be saved through belief in Yahusha as the Son of Yahuah, that He died on that cross and rose to life again after three days. Then, walk in the WAY as He did, because obedience to the commands of His Father is the only worship Yahuah accepts. It is that simple. Extracting yourself from the Mormon trap will be much more difficult.

  2. I think this is a good post.
    It is important to remember the Father YHWH is the
    Alpha and the Omega
    He knows The Beginning from The End and is outside of time.
    Defenetly part of our consideration as we walk with YHWH Elohim.
    Peace and Shalom

    1. Yes, the beginning from the end. I visualize time for Yahuah as a sphere in which time is an infinite number of points filling that sphere, and Yahuah is present at every point of time simultaneously. What we humans perceive as a straight line of time is in fact a limitless and random array of data points in anything BUT a straight line, and our physical death does not end the line, but it continues, all with Yahuah present at every one, for every human who ever lived, and ever will live.

  3. Jerry,
    I respectfully have to disagree with you,
    from the plain text of Genesis 3:6-7 alone.
    Part of your Dec 9th article indicates
    the woman fell first, then Adam.

    No, they fell SIMULTANEOUSLY.

    While the New Testament says the woman being DECEIVED
    was in the transgression, (1 Tim 2:14), she wasn’t UNDECEIVED
    (realize the consequences) until AFTER the fall (Adam’s sin).
    3:6 And when the woman saw …,
    she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
    and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
    Husband eats AFTER woman – so far, correct.
    3:7 And the eyes of them BOTH were opened, and they knew ….
    ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Adam was the federal head of mankind,
    his sin caused us all to be fallen.
    Romans 5:19 —
    For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so
    by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    No mention of WOMAN in Rom. 5:19, though of course Adam & Eve were “one flesh.” Numbers 30, esp. vs. 13-15, also relates to your speculations about what “might have been.”

    Sincerely,
    Joe McKinley

    1. Joe, thank you for commenting. I am looking for your disagreement, and the only part I can find disagreement is the “simultaneously” and “undeceived”. They might have eaten quickly, one after the other, but not simultaneously. And it seems her eyes were opened immediately, not after some kind of delay. I believe that Adam had time to observe her reaction. He no doubt had time to reconsider. The “And the eyes of both of them were opened…” is simply a statement of fact, not implying that their eyes were opened to sin at the same moment. Not that it matters at all. They fell.

      1. I agree with most of what you wrote.
        The disagreement concerns just whether there were
        SEPARATE FALLS of Eve and Adam, vs. a JOINT FALL.
        Our readings of the English are at odds on this
        one point, but lead to VASTLY different conclusions.

        You’re conflating the separate “eatings” of the fruit with
        the fall, as if Eve and Adam were separate moral entities.
        If the assumption of separable responsibility is granted,
        your views are correct. I do not agree, based on the KJV text
        – though perhaps a Hebrew expert (rabbi?) could be consulted on the original meaning “And the EYES OF them BOTH were opened” – whether it means distinctly SEQUENTIAL events or a SIMULTANEOUS event.

        Interestingly, no word in text prior to this indicates a change
        in Eve, before a change in Adam. Nothing significant seems
        to happen UNTIL Adam eats.

        I similarly think that Satan did not fall, then his angels.
        He was (and is) the federal head of the lizard / snake order
        of creation – when he fell, they fell with him.
        This is EXACTLY analogous to Adam’s fall causing all born
        from his seed to be fallen. Even though they weren’t present, they are counted as having been “in the loins” of Adam, so the fall came to all men.

        Since “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” (Acts 15:18 ), He certainly had the principles of Numbers 30 in mind when He made Adam and Eve. Specifically, man’s authority over a daughter or wife.

        While the “eating” of Eve preceded the “eating” of Adam,
        ONLY Adam’s eating was finally consequential. Numbers 30
        concerning oaths and bindings covers this. Verse 30:2 states
        a man’s oath is binding – but the rest of the chapter concerns how a woman’s vows / bonds can be made void or established, just by the words or inaction of her father or husband, especially Numbers 30:13-15:

        13 Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul,
        her husband may establish it, or her husband may
        make it void.
        14 BUT IF her husband altogether hold his peace at her
        from day to day; then he establisheth all her vows,
        or all her bonds, which are upon her: HE CONFIRMETH
        THEM, BECAUSE HE HELD HIS PEACE at her in the day
        that he heard them.
        15 BUT IF HE shall any ways MAKE THEM VOID AFTER
        that he hath heard them; THEN HE SHALL BEAR
        HER INIQUITY.

        The point is, Eve was UNDER Adam’s authority. Her words
        (and possibly actions) WEREN’T immediately binding (remember, this was a PERFECT COUPLE / WORLD still – hard to conceive now).

        Adam as husband possibly COULD have over-ruled Eve’s
        eating, too. Of course, EATING is an ACTION, not just a
        verbal commitment – it might be regarded as MORE than
        a mere oath or binding, though this eating did have a
        binding effect. If so, the principles of Numbers 30
        wouldn’t have been applicable, and Eve would have needed
        a perfect SACRIFICE even then.

        Final point: By being PRESENT and SILENT (Num. 30:14),
        Adam was certainly CONSENTING to Eve’s action,
        so maybe there’s no ground for hope anyway.

        1. Yours is well said Joseph. So the question is this: Eve was made from Adam. Was she therefore personally responsible for her act of rebellion? The two became one flesh. If they are one flesh, and if Adam is held to a position of authority over her, did Adam also fall when his flesh called Eve rebelled?

          Talmud – I consider all of Talmud to be blasphemous with no place beside and particularly not superior to Torah. Talmud was written by men who rejected the Messiah, therefore the Holy Spirit of Yahuah could not manifest itself within them. Without the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to rightly divide the Words. It is correctly called the “Babylonian Talmud”.

          Your observations are well taken and they are well reasoned. I am not sure we can find a certain answer to this question. The “and both their eyes were opened” might simply be a statement of fact that each gained open eyes, and not a simultaneous opening. Remember that she saw the tree was good for food. Food. She committed in her heart to do that which was forbidden, and then ate of it. Adam immediately followed her, so the consumption was practically at the same time. She ate of it and handed it to Adam to also eat of it.

          Yahuah first called to Adam, then He questioned Eve, which lends credence to your authority hypothesis. Yet He offered punishment to the woman first, then to Adam. So punishment was meted in order of the committed sin, first to the woman, then to the man. It was not simultaneous to both. Only then (Gen 3:16) does He formally establish the mans’ authority over the woman by saying so. Therefore no formal declaration of authority existed prior to the fall. She was responsible for her own actions, as was Adam. This seems to supersede the authority spoken of in Numbers, and is subsequently superior to Numbers. Numbers looks back in linear time to the original sin and the establishment of authority between a husband and his wife.

          Adam was additionally punished not only for eating but also for listening to Eve, which again points to a higher standard for the man after the incident.

          The keyword is “after”. First came then sin, then came the hierarchy of command. They were created as one flesh, which testifies to oneness, a single unit. If any part of that unit failed, then failure was assigned to the complete unit. Adam did not stop Eve, so he was already guilty for allowing sin to happen. He surrendered his leadership (as the first human) to her, and they both fell together. Both their eyes were opened. Both were punished, Eve first.

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